The New Burkeian

Reflections on the Revolution in Conservatism

Monday, December 06, 2004

Objective vs. Subjective Morality

The question of morality was addressed in one of my classes. Is it objective or subjective, and what are the implications for policy? Well, for the seasoned student of politics, you would know that my contempt for cultural relativism would extend to subjective morality. I believe in objective morality, and as such, I believe democracy as an institution best represents the general goals of moral policy.

Subjective moralists suggest that absolute, or general, rules for morality do not apply to the world. They would suggest that every culture has a different judgement on what is 'right', and what is 'wrong'. In other words, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter." The subjective moralist would not overtly judge another man's morals. Furthermore, he would suggest that any attempt to imply absolute morals is simply forcing one's ideas on another.

Objective moralists suggest that there are absolute rules that apply to morality. There is 'good' and 'evil'. The distinction between the two is cross-cultural. One man's terrorist is another man's immoral (yet rational) fighter. The killing of innocents intentionally is absloutely wrong. Hitler is 'evil'. Saddam is 'evil'. Bin Laden is 'evil'. The average person in the world is 'good'. And there is nothing inherently wrong with making those judgements.

In class, my support of objective morality was equated with the worst ethnocentric (basically racist and neoconservative) statement to date. It was quite to my amazement that a subjective moralist made the statement. He made a judgement on my moral character because I suggested that there are absolutes when discussing morality. Apparently he was not completely subjective. This is a problem with many subjective moralists. It is okay for them to judge, but not okay for others to judge.

This is the essence of the problem with subjective morality. You cannot judge subjectively. It smells of appeasement. Terrorists are only defending their culture, so we should either ignore them or give them concessions. Saddam was only doing what he thought was right, so we should never have invaded Iraq. Hitler only had intentions for Greater Germany, so we should assume he is a peaceful man. If you want to defend these guys, there is something wrong with your judgement.

Another problem subjective moralists have with their objective counterparts is current American policy for the promotion and support of democracies. They view American policy as an imposition of American values (Democracy) upon people of different moral character. They suggest Arab (not Muslim mind you) culture cannot comply with Democracy. Ethnic groups will fight, terrorist will fight, and the people will not understand how to participate in Democracy.

We had these same sorts of problems in our own country, though. The North and South had two very different cultures. The South participated in an immoral institution. Should the North have accepted slavery subjectively? I think not. So they fought, survived, and still exist today. Basically, infighting within a country is not a valid argument for the inability of Democracy to survive in Arab culture. I might add that Iraq has never experienced such infighting within its borders for thousands of years.

Finally, the subjective moralist would suggest that others view President Bush as an immoral or 'evil' figure. Sometimes perception is wrong, though. I think every person in this country (at least the majority) understand that there is no 'evil' behind President Bush's policies. He simply wants to promote and support democracies in the hopes that the world can one day achieve peaceful relations. He understands that there are 'evil' people in the world. America is one of the few countries that can respond to 'evil', so we should. He also believes that democracies are inherently 'good'. You cannot fool a majority of the people. And since the average person is 'good', majority rule within Democracy is 'good'.

Disagree if you want. But if you are a subjective moralist you better not judge.


Blogger "A Brown" said...

Setting aside the issues of morality (and I don’t necessarily disagree with you) your analysis still needs to cross the “so what?” threshold. It is perfectly fine to adhere to an objective moral code, in practical terms everybody does, but as a policy-making tool, it is of limited value. You have yet to address the question of how one deals with those who reject your moral code, without resorting to martial force or triggering Huntington’s Clash of Civilizations. You have confused strategy and tactics. A moral code sets the parameters and nature of one’s strategy but cannot provide the tactics necessary for action. Opposition to a single policy is not equivalent to opposition to an entire ideology. The US is powerful, but its strength is not great enough to occupy every opposing state by force. We have to pick and choose our spots wisely. We must fight on our terms and we have not done this in Iraq. The first great liberal-crusader President was Theodore Roosevelt. His advice to “walk softly and carry a big stick,” not “set a brush fire and bludgeon your hunting party.”

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

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December 10, 2007 at 1:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What nonsense...

Morality is subjective and it's quite obvious.

A subjective moralist can judge within their own subjective moral code. Most of the time this is passed down from their parents' subjective moral, and so on. They usually receive this code from some book, such as the bible. Doesn't mean it's absolute, because it's obviously not if different cultures have different religions. And most cultures receive their morals from their religion. I find your argument ridiculous and I won't continue this discussion because you only argue with retards for so long until it starts to get boring.

May 2, 2008 at 11:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


What a joke!

Hitler thought he was doing the right thing based on his model of the world! He didn't think he was being evil, and neither did his people at the fact, they're the ones that put him into power. Morality is subjective. Who sets the guidelines? Who makes the rules? WE DO! We're making it all up!

Let's see...Bin Laden is evil, yeh?...who says?...he doesn't!...he says he is cleansing the world of its infidels. Based on his view of the world, he is doing the right thing. You say he is evil because disagree with what he is doing. You assign "bad" with things you disagree with and "Good" to those things with which you agree. Let me see where those ideas come from...religion...beliefs...both of these are your contructions...and they're not usually your contructions but constructions you've borrowed from others rather than your own personal experience!

Very intelligent. Here's a judgement for you -

Go back and study Philosophy 101.

May 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM  
Blogger The KahwatyKid said...

One of the key words in the essay is "goals". Though different religions, political campaigns, cultures, etc., embark on different paths (the subjective), they do have goals. The goals may be different but the inherent quality that is the same for each groups's goal is that it tries to improve the group's situation. Each group is striving to improve their situation. Each group is striving for the truth (the objective)- whatever that may be. There is an objective truth but each path to attain it is the subjective part of the equation. I think morality is objective similar to that I think a tree falling in the forest makes a sound though no one is around to hear it. Morality doesn't require one's judgment, our judgments are subjective, as our paths are, but we strive for truth and objective morality.

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There's a reason why our judicial system includes a jury of peers. The judge executes the objective part of the law while the jury executes the subjective part.

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I believe in the objectivity of morals. Where I strongly disagreed with your essay was your opinion on the foreign policy of the US.
You stated that the US is one of the few countries that can respond to evil. This view is simplistic and totally wrong. Using an objective moral code based on the bible that the US claims to be envoys of still makes the US come out looking bad.
You need look no further than 20th century Latin America. CIA funded coups, US backed militia, economic terrorism, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost. All in the name of a conflicting ideal. An ideal based on equality (this does not mean that I am promoting socialism in any way). During the Vietnam war, 1 million Vietnamese citizens lost their life, again in the name of a conflicting set of beliefs.
Innocents obliterated in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Again and again the lives of other nationalities are seen to be expendable and cheap.
This in my opinion shows not a serious of responses to evil, but international instigation of evil many times.

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"Disagree if you want. But if you are a subjective moralist you better not judge."

A subjective moralist certainly can judge, its done all the time.

Look at the olympics where judges give subjective scores for the high dive, or the pairs skating. Dispite the subjectivity, there is a clear difference between a perfect high dive and a belly flop. Just like the subjectively judged olympic sports, one can subjectively judge morality once we obtain a set of goals.

Do you want a peaceful, thriving, low murder/rape/theft/assult rate, society that values freedom? Well then there are going to be certain behaviors that will help us obtain this sort of society and certain behaviors that will push us away from that sort of society.

While its true that I cannot say that Saddam or Osama are evil people, I can certainly say that their behaviors are not favorable and do not lead towards a society that most people want to live in. Just ask the people they've killed...

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Cows are treated better than humans in India, but served with fries and a Coke in America.

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